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Is his beak too long??

2.4K views 54 replies 7 participants last post by  pmfrizzle77  
#1 ·
Does anyone know if his beak is too long? I keep thinking it may be.
I would like some opinions.
Note: Even though he is much older (atleast 26y) and has been on Milk Thistle for short time. Thanks!
 

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#36 · (Edited)
I will post here some information about an average treatment for fat liver disease (hepatic lipidosis), as this information may help some people that have no specialized veterinarian support in their countries, such as India, some other countries from the Middle East and others.. these people very frequently appear asking for help in forums showing images of their birds with very strong yellowish color, sometimes with beak overgrow, and in some cases, when the disease advances, the cockatiel appears with signals of cronical sinusites, with inflated or infected red eyes (also a common sympthom in cases of liver disease due to the low imunity system situation the problem causes).

Of course that specialized support from veterinarian hospitals for exotic animals must be priority, as this is a serious disease. But if you have no support from vets in your region, this information bellow may be able to help your bird.

These informations may help your bird if she has strong yellowish feathers or beak/nails overgrow. Not all sympthoms may appear on the same bird at once. (Also, albino or white face cockatiels do not get yellowish in cases of liver disease, but it doesnt mean they dont have the problem).
 
#37 · (Edited)
I will post here some information about an average treatment for fat liver disease (hepatic lipidosis), as this information may help some people that have no specialized veterinarian support in their countries, such as India, some other countries from the Middle East and others.. these people very frequently appear asking for help in forums showing images of their birds with very strong yellowish color, sometimes with beak overgrow, and in some cases, when the disease advances, the cockatiel appears with signals of cronical sinusites, with inflated or infected red eyes (also a common sympthom in cases of liver disease due to the low imunity system situation the problem causes).

Of course that specialized support from veterinarian hospitals for exotic animals must be priority, as this is a serious disease. But if you have no support from vets in your region, this information bellow may be able to help your bird.

These informations may help your bird if she has strong yellowish feathers or beak/nails overgrow. Not all sympthoms appears on the same birds. (Also, albino or white face cockatiels do not get yellowish in cases of liver disease, but it doesnt mean they dont have the problem).
The main cause of liver problems is the diet provided for the cockatiels during their life, probably seed based diet.
Usually, people have the behaviour to give to their cockatiels some mixture of seeds with variated seeds (sometimes not so much variated, which is a bit worse).
However, cockatiels have the behaviour to select favorite seeds to eat too much when the mix of seeds is available, they select their favorite seeds and eat too much of them, ignoring the variation of the mixture. Usually they sellect two or three seeds to eat too much... depends on every bird.

This causes two main problems. First, because every type of seed is particularly weak in nutrients, the bird suffers from lack of nutrients from the food. Second, the seeds they select are their favorite because they taste better, they usually select the most oily seeds to eat too much. Because the oily seeds taste better , its like eating french fries, so when people offer a mixture of seeds for cockatiels, they are actually selecting their favorite oily seeds to eat too much. Over the years, is like if a human decides to live eating french fries and the excessive oils from the seeds will attack the liver and cause a condition called hepatic lipidosis, fat liver disease.

Its like liver disease of humans, that let our skin and eyes yellowish. But in their case, the metabolic effect can cause their feathers to become yellowish, weak, the overral appearence of the bird will degrade and she will look every time more yellowish, ugly, tired... eventually she will start to be more slow, less active... because liver problems will cause the overral health of the bird degrade, the imunity system will be worse and the bird will be more susceptible to other diseases... when the disease advances without treatment, it can reach cirrosis state or hepatic encephalopaty (at this point the bird gets intoxicated by its own liver, can even cause seizures and lost of balance), or generate ascites (generation of liquid inside the abdomen that needs to be extracted), which are much harder conditions to cure. The bad conditions of the liver can also generate other secondary effects like cronical sinusites and eye infections, or some kind of bubbles near the mouth of the cockatiels, all due to the low imunity of the body of the bird overral.

Here are examples of cockatiels of different mutations with liver disease and the cockatiel as they should actually be. All these birds bellow are yellowish, but remind that this effect doesn't always happen, sometimes only beak overgrow happens, and sometimes while the liver is problematic (and potentially biger in size), there are still no external sympthoms yet. But when they are yellowish this way and/or with beak overgrow, the good thing is that the problem is basically obvious:

Image



The name is called fat liver disease because the liver of the cockatiel can increase size, in some cases it can reach enourmous size inside the cockatiel due to amount of oils and be visible, like a ball near the cloaca of the bird. However, this is a condition that has cure (depending of course of the state of the bird). Usually treatment for that is made with medicine, the so called liver protectors, like Milk Thistle (Silymarin). In some cases others may be indicated too, some vitamins for the liver are usually indicated (C, B, E... depends on the vet and treatment he wants to provide), and some other support medicine.

And of course, the bird needs a diet correction for a good diet too, that's the other half of the treatment and its what will keep the bird healthy, after medicine period ends. A good diet for cockatiels is composed mainly of a good pellets ration of good brand. A good pellets ration will be like a good mixture of seeds, but in form of pellets, so the bird cant sellect the favorites. So the bird have no way to choose favorite seeds, cause all pellets are the same, and they all are very nutritious, much more nutritious than the diet the cockatiel would have by selecting only 2 or 3 favorite seeds from a seed mix and will not have excessive oils.

So, by changing the food of the cockatiel for a mainly pellets ration as main food, you start cleaning her liver from excessive oils from the seeds she is today and starts to let her liver breath and give space to the liver protector to act to restore her liver enzymes so it can eliminate the oils from the liver, and then the liver will eventually starts to work well again.
The adaptation from seeds to pellets however must be done slowly so the bird can slowly adapt to the new diet safely.

These bellow are good brands of pellets. If you can, I recommend you to buy Harrison's Super Fine pellets, they are great, the others are good too.
Cockatiels that transitionate for pellets heal much faster from this problem. But there are bad pellets too (avoid colored pellets, the good ones are from known brands, they are usually small, rounded and brown).

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Seeds are part of their diet, but only in small amounts, so it doesnt affect the base diet of pellets, that must be available all the time. However, for birds with liver problems, the ideal is to totally transitionate for pellets, 100% pellets, after a period of adaptation, obviously. For at least one year, pellets and vegetables, to clean the liver for good, then, after some period, return to receive seeds in small amounts only, like a snack, never as main food. But as I said, you cant simply remove the seeds and provide pellets to try to force the cockatiel to eat the pellets, she is not yet used to eat pellets, its a new type of food, you may need to slowly convert her for pellets. If you present her to the pellets and she eats eat them easily, great, things are better and faster when this happens, but sometimes some cockatiels have initial refuse to pellets. With cockatiels like these you need to go through a transition process.

For pellet conversion, you can try different safe strategies. One effective method is gradually mixing seeds and pellets in the following proportions over the next few weeks or months in their food bowls:

  • Week 1: 50% seeds / 50% pellets
  • Week 2: 40% seeds / 60% pellets
  • Week 3: 30% seeds / 70% pellets
  • Week 4: 20% seeds / 80% pellets
  • Week 5: 0% seeds / 100% pellets - At this point you can start offering seeds as snacks or complement, in small amounts daily or a few times a week, separated from the food bowl with pellets.
If necessary, you can extend each stage to two weeks. It's crucial to observe whether your cockatiel is actually eating the pellets before removing the seeds, as you must ensure your bird does not go hungry.

Other strategies include:

  • Providing a food bowl with only pellets until lunchtime, then offering a mixed bowl for the rest of the day.
  • Pretending to eat the pellets in front of your bird.
  • Offering pellets as a snack directly from your hand multiple times over several days.
  • Change the pellets brand, as different brands have different sizes and tastes, but chose one with good quality.
All this can help with pellets acceptance. You dont need to remove seeds completely from their diet, just provide in adequate amounts and proportion to seeds and vegetables.

The following image presents what would be a good diet for cockatiels. If your bird has liver disease and you do not fix the diet for a recommended diet based on pellets, it will be very hard to cure the bird, as he will keep eating excessive oils from the seeds.

Image


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So, if your bird has liver disease, buy a package of pellets of a good brand and start providing to introduce your birds.
The correction of the diet is half of the treatment for cases of birds with liver issues. The other part is the medication.

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Now about the medication. Medication for birds with liver disease is usually a type of medication called liver protector or liver detox. The most used in cases of birds is called Milk Thistle liver detox (polular name for Silymarin or silybum marianum extract). There are different brands of milk thistle you can use in birds.

These versions bellow are usable to birds with no problem (it needs to be Alcohol-Free for them):

Image



This version from Morning Bird is sold world wide, its a good version:

This version from Nature's Answer you can eventualy find at Amazon or other websites:

This version from Ektek Pharma, I see being sold in India:
or

This version called Legalon 140mg (or Legalon Forte) from Madaus is a brand of Milk Thistle that we usually find world wide in human pharmacies. It can be used on them with no problem, just need to dillute the content of the capsule in water before providing. I write bellow how to provide.

I recommend to give prefference for liquid versions, but if you really tried hard to find and wasnt able to get one of these, you can use the capsule version then with no problem.

There are other versions of milk thistle you can probably use too, but these are the most common to find online. Any other version you need to check if its safe for birds, if its not mixed with other improper components. For example, you may be able to find Milk Thistle in human pharmacies, it is a common medicine for human and animals, as long as it is pure silymarin, its ok, but it NEEDS to be an Alcohol-Free version (without alcohol), like some of the recommended above, if so, they are perfectly fine. Also, milk thistle is not the only usable liver detox we can use in birds, there are others like SAMe (s-adenosil metionine) that oftenly appear in treatments for birds with liver disesase, but Milk Thistle is much easier to find over internet and pharmacies at an appropriated way to provide for cockatiels, so I will only talk about milk thistle here.


If you have no veterinarian support, an average dosage of milk thistle for cockatiels, is written bellow. Of course it will depends on the version you buy, some are more concentrated, some are less concentrated, some are in capsule form and you need to dissolve on water. It will also depends on the state of the bird, if the liver alteration is big or small... Without vet support, there's no way to know other than external visual inspection. Anyway... Milk thistle is actually considered a "safe medicine" to provide, so if you suspect your bird has liver issues, know that the way you can provide some of these versions are:

- These specific versions from Morning Bird or Nature's Answer Milk Thistle you can provide:
2 drops (0.10ml) directly on the mouth every 12h for 60 days.

- The version from Ektek Pharma you can provide:
3 drops (0.15ml) directly on the mouth every 12h for 60 days (maybe, every 8h on the first month because this version is more dilluted).

- The Legalon 140mg capsule version from Madaus:
Dissolve the content of one capsule (open the capsule) into 10 ml of water and from this mixture you provide
2 drops (0.10ml) directly on the mouth every 12h for 60 days.

I suggest 60 days in all cases because if you are reading and following this, its because you have no vet support. Then, these days recommendations are based on an average case of liver issues. Sometimes, birds can have their liver healed in 20 to 30 days using milk thistle, but some birds require more time like 60 days or even more. Some birds with cronical problems in the liver use it forever. So, if you are not sure and have no way to know, well... use for at least 60 days.

You can use a 1ml syringe to safely provide the medicine to your bird, with a lot of caution, one drop at a time, waiting the bird to swallow. Put every drop by the side of the tongue of the cockatiel and let her swallow the content by herself, without forcing the syringe to their troat. If the bird choke, you can make the medicine to fall into their lumbs insted of the correct way, so, do not provide this way, provide the safe way: by the side of the tongue, one drop at a time with patience.

This is the quantity of 0.10ml (equivalent to 2 drops) in a 1ml syringe:

Image


This is a way to provide:

Image



Treatment for this usually also include some other support medications. A good one is Vitamin C (drops), like the one bellow. This can help A LOT. Add this to the treatment if you can. You can add this to the treatment with milk thistle to potentialize the treatment, as it also can help the liver and increase the imunity of the bird:

or
https://www.indiamart.com/proddetail/oxifit-c-drops-vitamin-c-100mg-per-ml-25591252073.html
or

There are many versions of vitamin C in every country.. but it needs to be drops version (liquid). Usually, kids versions are ok. If the vitamin C drops is from the concentration of 100 to 200mg/ml or similar, you can provide:

Vitamin C: 2 drops (0.10ml) directly on the mouth every 12h for 14 days.

You can provide the milk thistle and vitamin C one after the other. The Vitamin C however only for 2 weeks, while the milk thistle will be for some months.

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These images bellow are all cockatiels that were restored from this problem.
BEFORE / AFTER images:

All these cases were treated with milk thistle + vitamin c + change of diet from seeds to pellets. The time difference between the before and after images are from 4 to 7 months, depending on the case.

Image


Image


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As you can see, these birds are all yellowish, and some of them have beak overgrow. Some of them also have inflamated eyes. The eyes problems are consequence of the liver problem too, but became a problem itself, needing to be treated with specific eye drops (in these cases they used Tobramycin 0.3% eye drop twice every day for 15 days). But of course that they all went through the liver treatment and correction of diet to avoid having the problem again in the future.

Some of these birds had also other problems detected by the veterinarians while on appointment, some had respiratory issues (that can also be caused by fat liver), pneumonia, sinusites, anemia, and kidneys problems too. However, all these cases had an happy ending, they were all cured from the main liver problem with simple use of milk thistle, vitamin c and diet correction.

Also, always let some vegetable offering for your cockatiels, its good for hepatic birds, specially the most green leafs like kale, collard green, brocoli, rucola, cucumber.. pumpkin too... remember pellets as main food, more offering of vegetables, and less seeds. Also, when providing seeds, it needs to be a variated mix, without excessive oily seeds like sunflower. A good mixture of seeds will look like the mix from the image above. If your mixture of seeds has low variation, or excessive fat seeds, you know what caused the problem to your bird... I've seen some people offering only one type of seed for their cockatiels, or mixtures with 2 or 3 seeds (with one of them being sunflower) and that's terrible. Will kill the bird if continue with that, will destroy their liver. Also, never provide bread, coockies, rice or pasta of any kind. NEVER. Need to change this seed mix for a better one and start transitioning for pellets based diet, vegetables and some fruits, and only a little bit of a good seed mix, but never too much to not ruin the pellet based diet.

In cases that the bird appears to be with liver disease and it also has some inflamation on their eyes, usually its recommended the use of eye drops too, like Tobramycin 0.3% twice every day for 2 weeks usually. But sometimes other eye drops are more recommended. If you have no other option, well, try this. It should show improvements in only a few days if it works. If it appears to be worse, stop the application.

And again, all this information is for people that have no way to take their birds to a specialized veterinarian in their countries. If you have the option to take your bird to a specialized veterinarian hospital for exotic animals, do it. Cause liver disease is a serious condition. It usually has simple treatment, but only when the case is not very advanced. In many cases if not treated in time the bird will get worse and eventually die. But if you have no option.. find milk thistle, vitamin c, good pellets, and start providing...

More example cases are bellow, expand the reply to see...
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#41 ·
There is an excellent supplement for birds to help with liver disease - my vet told me about it and I highly recommend it. It's not a cure-all, but if you use it consistently, it can absolutely help, esp. if your bird is a seed eater and hard to change: This is it; it's a powder that you just sprinkle on their seed:
Equa Holistics Avian Formula Milk Thistle & Dandelion Root Bird Supplement, 1.59-oz tub
By Equa Holistics
In the United States, you can get it through mail order pet food sites like Chewy. You can also order it direct from the company.
 
#45 ·
I was wondering, how old is your bird?
Also see if you can scroll up on this on going discussion to #36 #37 post. I didn’t even know it was there till this morning. From Iks91 that is a very lengthy info post with pictures. I didn’t realize posts can be put in behind earlier ones. But I’m new to sites like this.
I’ve never heard of upset drops, but that doesn’t mean anything because I’ve never heard of all of this before. And I had my 1st cockatiel over 29 years.
I felt one of the most beneficial things for everyone to read is household toxins for cockatiels. It’s unbelievable how MANY things can cause birds trouble. I still have a Bird Talk magazine from the early 2000s that listed these things, but I have googled it online and ran across the same information.
 
#46 ·
Since I did put that out here by bringing up “household toxins for Tiels “I thought I would post what I ran across last night. Many of you probably already know of her & she may be a member of talk cockatiels, but just in case, you may want to this check out…

Cockatiel Care: Common Household Dangers to Avoid on You Tube

This girl is very thorough. After the (approx)minute intro she is a “fountain of information” !!! Apparently she is on there often. I hope to find one of her explaining the details of how their respiratory system works and why they absorbed everything they smell.
 
#49 ·
I’m very happy to report on Is His Beak Too Long… it’s not now!! August 22. Woke him up to realize his beak was now normal!! It looks great. The day before I had my two Cockatiel books out fretting over and comparing to the pic’s in book (again)what to do about it. I was discussing w/ a friend so it’s like my bird, GeeBer must of got sick of hearing about and decided to fix it himself! Lol lol. Maybe the prayers along with the Milk Thistle/dandelion made that long tip thinner and easier to REMOVE IT HIMSELF with his mineral block, and I did see him on the cuttle bone too since. I wanted to send a pic but for some reason I don’t know how to do that on this anymore. I will post this and continue to try to post pic. Thanks to all your info. as that kept me determined to help him.
 
#50 ·
With the liver returning to normal functions the beak can return to peel naturally. If you provided the milk thistle and corrected the diet of the bird for a pellets based ration, that is what saved him. Not only the beak was solved, but he was probably removed from the way of death by liver failure in a near future. These are good news. Keep always providing a good diet for her.
 
#51 ·
That’s good to know, what’s going within the beak. I had started him out slow in July with approx 1 to 1 1/2 drops MT so not to overwhelm him at his age. Then 2drop MT every 2 day.mid Aug back to every 3rd day. He was always real receptive of it until that morning Aug22 and his demeanor changed, couldn’t catch him, he was NOT having it! That’s when I realized his beak was fixed. He hasn’t had any since. “Should I occasionally give him some still”?? I keep fresh pellets out daily but they have yet to take to them. It’s ok ,I’m still waiting. They are getting more vegs. so bit less seed. No sunflower at all in mix.
 
#52 ·
Its not possible to know for sure without blood test to check how are her liver enzymes, maybe they are already good, maybe you should use milk thistle for some more time... without testing is just a blind guess judging only the external sympthoms of the bird. The important is to focus on a pellets based diet from now on to ensure the liver will not be attacked again by the excessive oils and low variation of nutrients from the seeds. I would recommend the use of milk thistle for until you know your bird accepted the pellets as main food, which should not take so long now after all this time in treatment.
 
#54 · (Edited)
Just to be clear, what I mean is, if your bird has liver issues or suspected liver issues due to beak overgrow or yellowing of feathers, and you have no option to take the bitd to the vet, provide milk thistle for 2 months at minimum. And in this period you work with the adaptation for pellets. After these two months, you decide if you keep or not the milk thistle for a longer period, but I recommend to keep until you ensure your bird is eating pellets instead of seeds as main food. The use of milk thistle is described in a previous comment. Liver restoration takes some time.