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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi, I have a male WF Pied /Pearl and female WF Cinnamon Pied. In the first clutch they gave all WF Pied Chicks. In the second clutch, they gave 2 WF Pieds and 2 WF lutinos. I am puzzled how can we get a WF lutino from pied parents ??

My assumption: The male might be WF ino Pied or split to ino as well and the female might be WF cinnamon ino Pied so that some of their chicks are ending up as WF ino Pied which looks like WF lutino with masked pied markings.

Let me know if my assumption is correct. Also attached the images of parents and chicks. Experts kindly advice.

Thanks in Advance.
 

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The male is split to lutino, and the lutino babies are girls. Lutino is a sex-linked mutation, and a male with the gene (either visual or split) is the only thing you need to get visual lutino girls. To get visual lutino boys, you need a male who has the gene plus a mother who is visual lutino. Your hen is not a lutino so you can't get lutino boys from this pair. Your male isn't a visual lutino either, but we know he must be split because you're getting lutino babies.

Here's more info on how sex-linked mutations work: http://www.littlefeatheredbuddies.com/info/breed-sexlinked.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The male is split to lutino, and the lutino babies are girls. Lutino is a sex-linked mutation, and a male with the gene (either visual or split) is the only thing you need to get visual lutino girls. To get visual lutino boys, you need a male who has the gene plus a mother who is visual lutino. Your hen is not a lutino so you can't get lutino boys from this pair. Your male isn't a visual lutino either, but we know he must be split because you're getting lutino babies.

Here's more info on how sex-linked mutations work: http://www.littlefeatheredbuddies.com/info/breed-sexlinked.html
Thank you tielfan. But something is not clear with these lutino babies. Because, they are from Pied parents. These are my doubts..

1. So, where did the Pied gene go?
2. What genes does these chicks hold now?
3. As Pied is a recessive gene and both parents are visually Pied, why the chicks are visually not Pied?

Kindly clarify my doubts. Thanks in Advance
 

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The pied gene is still here and didn't go anywhere. The chicks are whiteface lutino pied, but you can't see the pied markings because the lutino mutation has messed up the melanin in the feathers so badly that it's invisible. If you want to read a long article on how the different mutations affect the coloration process, I have one here: http://www.littlefeatheredbuddies.com/info/breed-coloration.html

The pied mutation messes up the normal migration of melanin-producing cells, so that some areas of the body that are supposed to have melanin (grey) coloring don't have it, and are yellow or white instead. The lutino mutation messes up the actual production of melanin so you don't see any grey at all. The areas that would look grey on a non-lutino pied do not look grey on a lutino pied. There's still a little bit of melanin in the feather, but not enough that we can see it.

All your chicks will be whiteface pied, whether you can see the pied markings or not. All the boys will be split to cinnamon because their mother is cinnamon. The girls will not have the cinnamon gene unless their father is split to cinnamon and gave it to them, because sex-linked genes only pass from mother to son not from mother to daughter. If you get any visual cinnamon chicks, you will know that dad is split to cinnamon and you can get cinnamon chicks of both sexes.

Approximately half of the male chicks will be split to lutino, because they got the gene from dad. There's not a way to identify which boys have the lutino split and which ones don't, other than breeding them to see if they produce any lutino daughters.

If I understood your post correctly, your male is split to pearl. So approximately half the daughters will be visual pearl, and half the sons will be split to pearl. It's possible that your whiteface lutino chicks are actually whiteface lutino pearl pied, but you won't be able to see the pearl markings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Many thanks tielfan!. And sorry for the delayed response.

I understood that, even though there is a small amount of melanin available, the feathers are modified to visually look like lutino. And also, the father is split to lutino so that I can get few lutino boys if I pair it with a WF lutino hen.

Also I want to hold these WF Lutino Pearl Pied babies. Is there a easy chance of getting a Clear Pied in the future from these girls? Kindly suggest me a correct mutation male so that I can work on the Clear Pied mutations more effectively. Or if there are any posts regarding WF Clear Pied also, please let me know. Thanks again!.
 

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There is a chance of getting a clear pied baby from any pair of birds that can produce pied babies. But if you want a clear pied baby, lutino pied parents aren't a good choice, because you can't tell whether a lutino pied bird is also a clear pied or if it's just a regular pied bird and you can't see the grey patches because the lutino mutation has covered it up.

You could pair these girls with a regular pied bird, and get pied babies who are not lutino. But having a lutino pied parent will not make the chances of getting a clear pied baby any higher.

The pied pattern is fairly random, because apparently there a lot of "modifier" genes that affect the outcome. So you can't predict what the babies of two pied parents will look like based on the appearance of the parents. The babies may have a pied pattern similar to their parents or they may have one that's very different. I've heard that the best way to get a clear pied baby is to pair a heavy pied bird with a light pied bird, but I don't know whether this is correct. In any case, there is a lot of random chance involved when you're trying for a clear pied baby.
 
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