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But if it's the rules Roxy wants enforced, then that's that.
I like Roxy, but she isn't the owner of the board with the inherent right to do anything she wants. The other mods at the time (including me) recommended her to be admin because we desperately needed someone who could carry out certain admin-only functions. She was chosen over everyone else because we trusted her to be fair and reasonable, and expected her to take the opinions of others and the general welfare of the entire board into consideration when she made decisions. It wasn't a job opening for a dictator who would hand out orders that the rest of us had to obey.

At that time some of the mods tended to operate on the principle of "let's strictly enforce the rules just because they ARE the rules and rules are there to be enforced", which is what started the negative atmosphere and the exodus of members from this board. Roxy was chosen to counterbalance this tendency, not to reinforce it. The whole purpose of the rules is to promote a peaceful, respectful atmosphere where people can freely exchange information and ideas. It's destructive, not helpful, when there's nit-picking rule enforcement in situations where no one intended to disrupt the forum.
 

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But what are we supposed to do? There have to be rules, and sometimes to me, it feels like people protest the dumbest things. It's like they think they should be exempt from the rules.

And Roxy is right, there are kids that come around here. It's up to the older folk to set a good example, and refusing to follow rules and tossing around unnecessary curse words isn't a good example. Even if it's a stupid rule, people need to just get over it and follow it, unless it's directly affecting them and the way they use this site. And I don't mean something minor like watching your language, something that takes little effort to obey. I'm talking large scale stuff.

The way I see it, being here is a privilege, not a right, and to be rewarded the privilege of membership, there are rules to follow. It's social contract, and it's how government works, too.
 

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But to be honest, I don't really care what happens to this board any more. I'm still here obviously, but the thread at http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=61753 broke something in my head and the love and loyalty that I used to feel for TC are gone now. So there's no need to have a big discussion or anything, and management can just carry on with whatever they want to do.
I've been there for a while. Why do you think M-I-C-H-E-L-L-E (that's right-I can't even write her name right now) left? We just don't feel the same way we once did about TC. I used to really enjoy the community here. But lately I've been only a lurker, and anything I've contributed is only for the benefit of the birds. We will always have p-a-s-s-i-o-n for the birds after all, no matter where we are or what community we are or aren't a part of.

It took Mic****e quite a long time to leave this place, because once you've become part of this community and have helped countless birds in so many different ways..it becomes quite difficult to detach yourself from that. But there also comes a time you decide it simply isn't worth supporting a place you don't agree with anymore.

But this thread is about cussing, so I'll get off my tangent. We've already identified the problem, and how to fix it by using {these} to censor only the bad words and not the inside other words. It is now up to Yung or Roxy to fix it, but we should probably count on Roxy since Yung is rarely around.
 

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Some rules that are necessary because they promote a good atmosphere on the board. It's not necessary to have rules that promote a repressive atmosphere by unnecessarily stifling free speech. We don't want people angrily cussing at each other because that's a hostile atmosphere. If we slap an infraction on someone who is telling a story and says "I didn't pay attention to where I was walking and fell on my ***" that is also a hostile atmosphere IMO.
 

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In other words, people are going to banned for making asterisks appear if the context makes it look like they might have said a naughty word, even though some of the asterisk-producing words are very mild and at least one is not considered to be a swear word at all.
I hope that either Yung, or Roxy, will see your solution to fix this so no one gets banned/receives an infraction for using a word that appears to look like a cuss word, because it is replaced with asterisks, when it wasn’t. I certainly wouldn’t want this to happen to anyone, it would definitely be unfair, and very understandable if someone was to get angry about it.
 

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I'm sure Roxy will tend to the auto-censor stuff when she comes on.

Maybe TC is understaffed. But it seems to me that whenever we do do active "staffing", everyone kicks up a stink and complains about the rules and the heavy-handedness. More staff will mean even more active moderation - not sure if many people are keen for that ;)
 

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Bobo, (...) you can't claim you're being hunted.
we are issuing infractions for all swear words that are written AFTER Roxy posted this new rule in the thread. we are not going to backtrack and infract previous cussing.
Ollieandme, this is UNTRUE.
The thread (mine was post #1) where my supposed cussing happened is dated 12/7.
This thread about cussing punishment started on 12/14.
So maybe you understand why not only I am feeling singled out about this, but also why at this point I have a big problem thinking about the why. Call me paranoid, but when you go back 7 days to find a "cuss" word in one of my posts, this can't be a random thing.


It is not retaliation (nor revenge for that matter), you seem to be a tad worried that admins are out to get you, and you are the only one who has been given an infraction, and you aren’t.
As I said above, it is obvious that you went back one week to "get" me, so if you want to dismiss my posts here making me look like a whining paranoid, please do it, but it doesn't look nice on you.

I feel I spent too much time on this thread. Thing is, I hate injustice, and I hate even more abuse of power directed to who can do very little to defend themselves.

Just like the thread about Tapatalk, now this comes to mind but there must be many others, the thread gets closed down when members are voicing their discontent and are trying to do something to make administrators change their minds using perfectly valid reasoning.

As the idea of encouraging members to g-r-a-s-s up fellow members for using inappropriate language, I find the idea monstruous. What you don't need is to make everyone wary of other people. This would make the air in TC heavier than it already is.

"Some rules that are necessary because they promote a good atmosphere on the board. It's not necessary to have rules that promote a repressive atmosphere by unnecessarily stifling free speech. We don't want people angrily cussing at each other because that's a hostile atmosphere. If we slap an infraction on someone who is telling a story and says "I didn't pay attention to where I was walking and fell on my ***" that is also a hostile atmosphere IMO"

I couldn't agree more.

We are a community of mixed aged people, not people who live on the moon.

Also you say that the autocensor will bleep words out but anyway people will get sanctioned for using cursing language. Then I don't see the sense of having an automated bleeping system that, the way you implemented, doesn't work anyway.

And how are you going to c-l-a-s-s-i-f-y words like W-T-F or ROFL o LMFAO?
Please don't say that they are accepted because they are now part of common language. D**N or H**L are even on the dictionary!!!

Are we gonna have to talk in acronyms from now on?
 

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But it seems to me that whenever we do do active "staffing", everyone kicks up a stink and complains about the rules and the heavy-handedness. More staff will mean even more active moderation - not sure if many people are keen for that
IMO active moderation (in the sense of sternly cracking down on something) should be limited to cases where someone is actively trying to cause trouble. I think everyone here understands the need for a good atmosphere on the board and the need to prevent behavior that disrupts that atmosphere. Most of the rules here are intended to prevent bad behavior and I don't see people arguing about those rules. What they DO argue about is when the rules are over-enforced and someone gets scolded or infracted because they may have been in technical violation of a rule but had no intention to disrupt the board. As an example that hasn't actually happened yet, someone could get infracted for writing "LMFAO" which is a friendly response meaning "that's funny" but contains two implied swear words. People also complain if they get moderated for violating a rule that doesn't serve a peacekeeping function and exists "because I said so that's why", because it seems like an unnecessary restriction on their freedom of speech.

It's up to the current moderator team to decide whether they need more help. But if they want to avoid complaints about over-moderation, it will be best to seek out people who understand the goal that the rules are meant to serve and are focused on that, and to stay away from people who are enthusiastic about authoritarianism for its own sake and are focused on the letter of the rules not the spirit of the rules.
 

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I don't think people should be punished for cussing if the cusses automatically censor! That's silly. After all, the end result is the word does not appear, nobody gets offended, and everyone goes on their merry way. H-e-l-l and d-mn are two of the words I consider borderline, so if somebody typed one not knowing it wasn't allowed and it got bleeped, well okay now they know. Also I can type what the eff or wtf and everybody knows it doesn't stand for "fudge"...but I'm not in trouble.

I say fix the auto- censor feature and it will be useful, but don't punish people on top of it!
 

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Bobo, I'm pretty sure that A) Roxy went back and gave you that infraction because it was on a recent, memorable board where people fought or B) the computer system is the one that gives infractions, not the mods, and therefore EVERYONE who had cussed in a post before got an infraction.

The mods aren't out to get you. If they were, you would've been long gone before you had gotten to a thousand posts.
 

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Sorry Bobo, my mistake :(
There is no way we can convince you that we're not out to get you sadly. All i can say is that i am truthfully certain that neither myself, Roxy, or Renae would ever use infractions as a way to revenge and i'm very sad that you think we would.
 

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I'm pretty sure that A) Roxy went back and gave you that infraction because it was on a recent, memorable board where people fought or B) the computer system is the one that gives infractions, not the mods, and therefore EVERYONE who had cussed in a post before got an infraction.
I would like to caution everyone about the dangers of speculating and making ***umptions. Unless someone has been leaking information, the moderators are the only people who really know their motives for handing out an infraction. Regarding point (A) a moderator has already stated in this thread that it was NOT because of the anti-breeding thread, see http://talkcockatiels.com/showpost.php?p=758145&postcount=29 . Stating your confidence that it really WAS because of the anti-breeding thread is not a good way to soothe the situation.

Regarding point (B), we have not been notified that the computer has started handing out infractions without the knowledge of the moderators. It seems unlikely that the moderators would want this to happen, since it would remove their ability to use their own judgment. Making ***umptions without any hard evidence for what happened does not help the moderators, the general members, or the board's reputation.

It's also important to get your facts straight before you make public statements about the motivations and behavior of people involved in a controversy. I went back and looked at the anti-breeding thread at http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=74905 to see how much editing the moderators did for cussing. There was one person who got edited for this reason and it wasn't bobobubu. There are no edits at all on bobobubu's posts in that thread.

There were harsh comments being made by more than one person in that thread so it was appropriate for the moderators to make a call for restraint and politeness. In fact it wouldn't have been inappropriate for them to be a little more forceful on that score, but since the first post was written in an inflammatory style (whether intentionally or not) it was basically an invitation for trouble and it's hard to put ALL the blame on the people who responded to the invitation.
 

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As I said above, it is obvious that you went back one week to "get" me, so if you want to dismiss my posts here making me look like a whining paranoid, please do it, but it doesn't look nice on you
I didn’t go back one week to “get you” at all, in fact, I wasn’t even the one to give you an infraction, so where are you getting that *I* was the one out to get you? (if you didn’t mean me when saying you, it would have been better if you had put it differently) I didn’t realize that you were given an infraction for using that word before the rule even was put into place, that is something you need to talk to Roxy about. By the way, it is also not making it look nice on you putting words into my mouth, I never said anything about you being a whining paranoid, I was trying to re***ure you that you aren’t the only one with an infraction, but hey, maybe I should of not bothered, or not bother at all from now on if it is going to make people ***ume that I am referring them as a whining paranoid whilst only trying to help.
 

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Bobo, I'm pretty sure that A) Roxy went back and gave you that infraction because it was on a recent, memorable board where people fought or B) the computer system is the one that gives infractions, not the mods, and therefore EVERYONE who had cussed in a post before got an infraction.

The mods aren't out to get you. If they were, you would've been long gone before you had gotten to a thousand posts.
Amz, I am pretty sure that A) you didn't read my post above where I give proof that the infraction was from a post dated 7 days before the breeding discussion happened and had nothing whatsoever to do with that thread
B) the infraction I am talking about was not given by the computer, but by an admin that "happened" to be reading that particular post I wrote.

I gave all facts but if you don't read a thread in its entirety you are bound to make ***umptions based on nothing.
 

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Just to clear things up a bit, computers do not issue infractions. I do believe though, that if you build up a certain amount of infraction points, that the system does an automatic ban (though I never actually saw anyone get enough points for this to happen the entire time I was part of the staff).
 

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I didn’t go back one week to “get you” at all, in fact, I wasn’t even the one to give you an infraction, so where are you getting that *I* was the one out to get you? (if you didn’t mean me when saying you, it would have been better if you had put it differently) I didn’t realize that you were given an infraction for using that word before the rule even was put into place, that is something you need to talk to Roxy about. By the way, it is also not making it look nice on you putting words into my mouth, I never said anything about you being a whining paranoid, I was trying to re***ure you that you aren’t the only one with an infraction, but hey, maybe I should of not bothered, or not bother at all from now on if it is going to make people ***ume that I am referring them as a whining paranoid whilst only trying to help.
Renae, my intention was not to accuse you of something YOU did.
In all forums, it's very important that all moderators and admins present a united front , no matter how much they can fight about it in private.
I have never seen a situation like this, not as moderator and not as normal member, where every single admin has views and ideas publicly not conforming to eachother's.
I have no idea what you did and didn't in all this, I just ***umed that as admin you were part in saying oh you know what, she didn't cuss in that thread but surely we can get her in some other way. And with "get" I mean throw me together with other people who cuss at will when they feel like it.
When I said YOU I meant admins in general.
And when you said "you seem to be a tad worried that admins are out to get you" surely you didn't such words that I am a whining paranoid but the meaning was pretty close to that, no?
I have great respect for you, and what you explained above makes me wonder even more why you are entangled in this pretty messy administration.
 

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Only Yung and Roxy are admins. Renae and I are mods. I was aware that Roxy was going to give you an infraction. It's really not worth bashing this situation. You've definitely given us a very clear, blunt, and rude picture of what you think of our moderation. Since you aren't listening to our explanations, than it's not really worth discussing this any further.
 

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So since it has been revealed that bobobubu's infraction was issued for a post she made before the new "no-warning" cussing rule was made, wouldn't it make sense to just apologize and then retract the infraction, and issue a warning instead? I feel that would solve at least part of the issue here, and it seems fair for it to be retracted even if it didn't make anyone feel better.
 

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Or maybe if both sides said "sorry, I went a little overboard" there could be a peaceful settlement. I think it's reasonable to say that both sides HAVE gone overboard. We're all human and stuff like that happens sometimes, but it's not irreparable.
 
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