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Discussion Starter #1
Hi there,

I just signed up for this site. I guess I am looking for a bit of encouragemet here as I have a very sick tiel (Snowy) who is 14.

Snowy has been a plucker for years now and has been in and out of a cone over the years. He has also been on rounds of antibiotics for various wounds from time to time as a prophylactic measurement.

Last year Snowy has stitches for the first time to close up a wound he has picked under his left wing. Since this procedure his wing has not healed and he has gone through re-opening and tearing off his scab. I have recent moved and began going to a new vet (which seems incredible so far). Snowy has some crush slides taken of the massive (and very disgusting) scab that fell off (on it's own). He was examined, and photos of his under-wing wound were taken. This slides came back with signs of infection but nothing cancerous etc.

After coning him, giving him the polysporin treatment for staph and strep. I came home to find his left leg (the side of the body that the wing wound is on) was stiff, tender, and had huge bulging veins. Immediately I called the vet and discovered he was septic (the wound had also turned from a normal scab into a white cheesy looking scab). Snowy started his Baytril (once daily -orally) today, and in addition is getting poly rubbed on the wound 2x a day and 0.5% cortisone cream rubbed on his little leg for inflammation.

I am begging ANY OF YOU, please tell me what the success rate in avians is for sepsis. He is still eating, playing, sleeping, and kissing. Other than his leg, nothing about his behaviour has changed. I am making myself sick over here trying to research, and read anything and everything on sepsis, cockatiels, birds, euthanasia, you name it. I am trying to hard to be strong and not let my bird see how panicked I am, but I'm cracking.

I know losing him is a possibility and the vet knows that I will not let him suffer if it comes own to it. Please someone just tell me how to manage this.
 

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If he is septic, he is going to need more than just oral Baytril. Can you take him to the vet and have him hospitalized? As I am sure you have found in your reading, sepsis is a very serious condition and can become fatal very quickly. HOWEVER, that does not mean it is hopeless or that you should give up right now.

Ideally, I would say take him to the vet and have them stabilize him. Ask for fast-acting injectible antibiotics, and for sub-cue fluids to support the kidneys. Also get him into some type of hospital enclosure until you can get him into the vet -- restricted space, lowered or no perches, and added heat. (threads on supplemental heat: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=16019 http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=16020) These things will help him conserve energy so his body has a better chance of fighting infection.

Thank you for doing so much to help your bird. Please keep us updated! I will be thinking of you both.
 

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Wish i could help hun, Hope you little man gets better soon :) There are lots of knowledgeable people on here im sure can help answer your question
 

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What you are describing is CUD...which means Chronic Ulcerative Dermatitis.

Was the primary cause ever found. The most common causes are Giardia and hypovitaminosis E


Was a culture done, which would also list the most effective antibiotic and/or antifungals to treat with.

Rather than oral meds I would ask the vet to show you how to do injectable shots for the meds. If he can prescribe Flagyl (in addition to the Baytril) in injectable form that would be best. It is effective against anaerobic bacteria. And a shot of Vit E with selenium. And also an antifungal because CUD can be from a fungal problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR SPEEDY REPLIES!

I am so grateful for the support :) The little man is all happy in his super comfy cage with clean towels, extra low perch, and millet sprays.

I strongly believe the vet would have suggested right away about hospitalization. I will call him tomorrow just to do a check in though and ask him whether Baytril is good enough on it's own. The type of Baytril I have IS injectable, but they chose to load it into oral syringe and have me not give the added stress of taking the bird in everyday for the actual injection.

Snowy has a little heat lamp to keep warm and is drinking his fluids. His skin looks like it always does, and his droppings are at regular intervals and have regular appearance.
He was sitting out and looked up and me and gave me a kiss, almost like he was telling me to stop fretting and he was doing his best to get himself better. (HEARTBREAKING - but reassuring).

I will keep you all updated at any news or change.

Thank you so much again, I really needed some birdlover love <3

Stacey
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I forgot to add, cultures were taken of his wound and it was found to contain infection but the exact pathogen wasn't disclosed to me. I think that he prescribed Bayril right off the bat because he already had seen the wound and i was very descriptive in telling him the appearance etc. of the wound's changes (ie. cheesy appearance, indicating staph and or strep which baytril and polysporin are treating).

Again, I PROMISE to check in with the vet tomorrow. THANK YOU!
 

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have me not give the added stress of taking the bird in everyday for the actual injection.
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Sheeh (about the vet)....they can show you how to do the shots!
The illust are for future reference when your vet shows you how to do shots.
 

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Since cultures were done (and if billed for them) you can request a copy for your self for your own records. On the report it will list all bacteria and fungal/yeast and what levels. it will also list the meds that are both effective and ineffective for treatment. This is helpful if you are not seeing an improvement within 2 days you have alternative meds that can be used.

In regards to Baytril...it is what is called: a broad spectrum antibiotic. It has been over-used in the veterinary field because it is the first thing they use when they are not sure what is going on, or until culture reports suggest a more effective med.

In fact it is a good idea to request a copy of records of all that was done for him to start his own personal health file. This way you have them if you have to go to another vet and they can see what has exactly been done.
 

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been on rounds of antibiotics for various wounds from time to time as a prophylactic measurement
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This part of your posting concerns me because in my early years with birds, I have had vets have me do prophylactic flock treatments, and I learned that if a med was used several times that the bird could build up a resistance to it, and when it is used the med. is not longer effective. Obtaining all of his medical records will tell you which meds have been used, etc.

On another note, prophylactic antibiotics would have the same effect a bird as the other things listed in this article: http://justcockatiels.weebly.com/preventative-treatments.html
 

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Snowy has been a plucker for years now
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Sorry for all the postings, but last night I was so tired I could not think, and it is the AM, so in re-reading your post quite a few questions came to mind.

From personal experience I have found that with tiels there is 2 main causes for the plucking: giardia or an allergic reaction to something in the diet (ususally contains synthetic vitamins)

Again getting all of his medical files will be helpful. What you want to do is look to see if he was ever tested for giardia. Sometimes a test will give a false negative, so it is best to repeat the test. Also look at the medications he was on in the past. if Metrdonidazole or Ronidazole are mentioned, if so they would be common meds for giardia. Most vets rarely consider food allergies. The most common ones are sfood that contain sythetic vitamins, and corn.

A little info on vitamins:
Sources of Vitamins need to be addressed and are they in natural form or synthetic. Natural (derived from greens and veggies, as one example)sources are more readily absorbed and assimilated within the body. A natural source of vitamin A is any food that contains Beta-Carotene. . Synthetic vitamins are derived from inorganic chemicals which many times are combined with undesirables substances such as sugar, artificial colors, preservatives, and coal tars. They are not assimilated and utilized as well in the GI tract, and tend to store and build up in the fat tissue and liver. Read labels: The labeling can give a clue to distinguish between natural and synthetic forms. If the ingredient is prefixed with a d- this would be natural. If it is prefixed with either a dl- OR an l- this is a synthetic (chemical) component. EX: d-alpha-tocopherol = natural E, dl-alfa-tocopherol = synthetic E


There are 2 categories of vitamins:

Fat-soluble vitamins, which are: A, D, E, and K. Fat-soluble vitamins are stored in the body, and build up in the liver and fatty tissues. Feeding excessive amounts of vitamins (such as a pellets diet or fortified diet with supplemental vitamins) can cause the fat soluble vitamins to build up an allergic reaction or a toxicity. In either case this can cause an intense itch under the skin which results in plucking to relieve the itch. Also some foods that have corn can cause allergic reactions that contribute to plucking.

Water-soluble vitamin/nutrients are: The B family (B1, B2, B3, B5, B6, B12) Biotin, Choline, Folic acid, Insotol, PABA, C, P (bioflavonoids). Water-soluble nutrients are NOT stored in the body. They are excreted daily, thus they need to be constantly replenished during times of stress, moulting, etc, and the best way to supplement is with Brewers Yeast.

Also good lighting is beneficial to a plucking bird. What type of lighting does he have. He will benefit from FSL (full spectrum lighting) A bird skin is also his exterior barrier to a healthy immune system.

A sodium deficiency can contribute to plucking.
 

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Back again....OK from some quick reading the most common bacteria found with birds that have a dermatitis problem: Pseudomonas/Aeromonas, Clostridium, Staphylococcus. Of these 2 it is Staph and Pseudomonas that if there is an overgrowth and it goes systemic can go into Septicemia. Clostridium can effect the digestive tract, and if there is an undiagnosed and tretment for giardia,further impair nutrient absorption. The bacteria can also harm the mucousal wall which is one of the bodies immune defences.

Once you get your records these are some things to look for.

OK...Baytril is effective (from personal experience not enough) to the 2 listed that can contribute to the septicemia. But there may be better alternative, or another anitibotic that can be used in addition to Baytril, andf injectables right now would be preferable.
 

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OK...more thoughts. Was any bloodwork done recently? What was the WBC (white blood cell) count. With septicemia it will be around 5000 With bacterial septicemia the bird may be anemic (regenerative anemia) so this will have to be addressed. Use of corticosteriods are not advisable when there is a bacterial septicemia.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Talked to the vet today and he said to just give the baytril a chance for the next few days and see how he does. We are also adding one drop of metacam daily for any pain and inflammation. The metacam is a relief for me because I can't stand seeing the little guy hurt. So far, another great day though, pigging out on millet spray, giving cranky speeches when I slip a drop of meds to him, and still perching strongly. He is just having a cockatiel nap right now but he otherwise, looks like he's doing alright :)
 

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I'm glad you got in touch with your vet and that he still seems to be doing well. It's also good that you got pain relief for him. How does the infected area look? Also take a look at his skin -- Are there still bulging veins, or does it look more normal? Still sending you guys healing thoughts. :)
 
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