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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have a question about a current clutch that a breeder has, just to see if I can get any answers for her (she is not a member on here) She has a clutch from a white faced male and a pied female. These are the babies mutations at 6 weeks: cinnamon pearl, grey,cinnamon,and grey pearl (I'm assuming by "grey" she means normal)

would any of these be female? and is the dad a pearl (or split to?) and split to cinnamon? I have been trying to learn about different mutations but I am completely lost on this one lol no pictures, sorry

thanks in advance for your help!
 

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Ok first off id just like to say I'm not an expert! But here's what I DO know.
Hens can't be split to cinnamon or pearl, they can only be visual. That means, since the chicks got it somewhere and the male isn't visual either, the male must be split to cinnamon and pearl.
Any cinnamon or pearl babies will be female since these are sex linked mutations.

See if this Link works:http://http://members.optusnet.com.au/~geoffwatts1/Cinnamon&Pearl.html
 

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Discussion Starter #3
thank you! I was trying to look at those "genetics calculators" but honestly couldn't figure out how to even put in these two parents mutations :eek:
 

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The male father is cinnamon on one W chromosome and pearl on the other (split cinnamon and split pearl).

All chicks will be split whiteface and split pied.

The cinnamon pearl chicks should be the result of a process called crossover where dna for two sex-linked mutations on adjacent W chromosomes mix onto the same chromosome during sperm formation within the male bird.

We could do better with pictures, but that's what it looks like.
 

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Yes, the father must be split to cinnamon. He also must be pearl or split to pearl. Depending on the breeder's knowledge of the pearl mutation, how long she has had her male, or the experience of the breeder she may have gotten him from, it is possible that the father is completely pearl. However, male pearls will molt out all or most of their pearls so she just may not know that her bird is pearl. If you can get us a picture of the male, we could tell you if he is pearl or just split to pearl.

The cinnamon pearl, pearl, and cinnamon chicks are all female. In order for a male tiel to be pearl or cinnamon, both of which are sex-linked mutations, he must get one W chromosome that carries that mutation from each of his parents. However, we know that the mother does not have a mutated W chromosome, because if she did, she would be visible for that mutation. Therefore, she cannot pass a mutated chromosome onto any male chicks and they cannot be visible for the mutation. Female chicks, on the other hand, only need one mutated chromosome to have a mutation, which they get from their father. If the father is visible for a mutation, then all of the female chicks will also get that mutation, as both of the W chromosomes that he possesses and can pass on to his chicks are mutated. However, if the father is split to a mutation, meaning only one of his W chromosomes carries that mutation, then female chicks can have the mutation and also can't. This is the reason why we cannot confirm the gender of the grey chick. If the male is split to pearl, then the grey chick could be either male of female. If we discover that the male actually is a pearl, then the grey chick must be male.

All chicks are split to pied and whiteface. These are recessive mutations and a chick must get the gene for it from both of their parents. If the breeder ever gets a chick that is whiteface, then the mother must be split to whiteface. If she ever gets a pied chick, then the father must be split to pied. We could also look for these splits if we could have pictures.

I hope this was helpful and not too confusing! If you're confused, just let us know and we can help!
 

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The male shouldn't be a full pearl... he wouldn't be able to produce a female cinnamon chick if he were.

The reason being:

W1= Cinnamon

W2= Pearl

There is potential for crossover to produce some cinnamon pearl.

if:

W1= Cinnamon Pearl

W2= Pearl

There is no potential for crossover to produce a cinnamon (non-pearl) chick.

Its important to remember that crossover only involves the male's genes.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
thank you, thank you, thank you!!! I love learning about all this stuff :) I am secretly a science/math nerd and it's so interesting to me. I appreciate all of your input!
 
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